Scott Leune: This podcast is sponsored by dentalmarketing.com and they have agreed to give the listeners of this podcast a free competitive marketing analysis. This analysis is going to show you very clearly how your practice is doing compared to your competitors. It's going to give you the health of your SEO, it's going to give you a website grade, and you'll also see what your competitors are up to. This helps you know what ad strategy you should have today, how clean and effective is your marketing right now? Find out by getting this free and detailed analysis. Text the word marketing to 4 8, 6, 5 9, and you'll receive this competitive analysis from our sponsor, dentalmarketing.com. Alright, Jordan, so again, thank you so much for joining us today, and before we dive into all the stuff we're going to talk about, could you please take a moment to tell our listeners where you are, who are you, what do you do? What's your story right now?

Jordan Sanders: Absolutely, Scott. Thank you for having me. Yeah, so my name's Jordan Sanders. I'm a dentist up in Kelowna, British Columbia, Canada. For all of my American friends out there, it's a small town, about quarter million people. We opened a startup dental practice here about just over four years ago now, which has been a eye-opening experience. There's a lot of dentists in Kelowna and it's kind of home for me. I grew up in the Okanagan Valley where it's located and I really wanted to come back, but I knew that there was going to be some struggles with that. And so we opened up this. I tried the associateship, I tried to work in some other clinics, but I just found that the vision that I had didn't align with what those offices were kind of giving out. And so we made the decision to do the startup.

Obviously right around the time that COVID hit was when I signed the lease, so that was terrifying. But fast forward four years and we're on track to do 3 million this year. We've got two dentists in this office, including myself, 16 wonderful team members that I think are top of the game as far as their skills and personalities and it's just been a fun journey. But about a year ago I had this, I was looking for something new, something to change it up, and I had been a hobbyist 3D printer for probably a decade at that point, just making things at home and it kind of started to come into the dental world. We started to see more abilities to make surgical guides, little things for our patients. And so I just went all in on that and last year decided to actually start teaching it.

I've always wanted to be a teacher. I've always wanted to be able to share my passions with other people. And so we started Ascend Dental Education, which is an education company based out of Kelowna here, and we teach other dentists how to bring 3D printing into their own practice and demystify it creates some super high quality fun ce. I know that there's not a lot of that out there really, and that's been just an eyeopening and amazing experience for me. Just being able to not be behind the drill every day and spend some time just talking to other dentists and create a whole different realm of connections and networks that I would never have had the opportunity to do otherwise. So yeah, life is busy, it's creative, it's inspiring, and I'm enjoying every day so far.

Scott Leune: Well, I've got so much to ask now, so I'm going to hit you with a bunch of questions. But first, do you have a family? Do you have a significant other kids or what's that whole situation?

Jordan Sanders: Yeah, I have a partner and I have two young children, a 6-year-old and a 4-year-old. They're so busy, it's a crazy time. I know you've got five kids yourself, so two is nothing like five. I don't know how you do it, but yeah, they're so much fun. All the little sports and stuff, biking, hiking, taking them out and enjoying time with them and that was a big motivator as well as how to create some time to be more present with them because they're only young once and you start looking at the clock and seeing how fast time's going by and wanted to have the opportunity to be more present with them. And the teaching has really allowed that because taken away, I've created some systems to kind of offload a lot of my administrative responsibilities in the office itself. And so now I can do my work and I can go home and I can be present with my family and it's, it's been a nice shift.

Scott Leune: So we've got a startup practice. It's been open four years, and gosh, you signed the lease during COVID and that was coming off of an associateship. And so what I heard you say is the associateship, it wasn't quite the alignment in what you envision for your career. So you build this practice and now you've got something that represents the personality and the culture you want. It represents the dentistry you do. It is now almost like seeing out your career vision. Now you're actually starting that. You started that chapter where you get to kind of paint this painting now that becomes a career you always wanted and that isn't always easy to do. It's definitely not easy to live through and you don't always end up doing well, but you have achieved 3 million in collections you mentioned, and you're still kind of a toddler practice, you're not an old practice.

I encourage everyone to kind of go follow Knox Mountain Dentistry, Knox, KNOX, Knox Mountain Dentistry, and also Ascend Dental Education on Knox Mountain Dentistry. You'll find videos of this practice. Now, Jordan, what I noticed you did really well, and of course it's something we teach in our events as well, but I noticed that in your advertising to the patient of this startup, you did a really good job on your videos walking through the practice, highlighting the amenities, the technology, the benefits, really the entire patient experience. So by the end of that video, the potential patient have trust, I like you, I know that the practice is modern, it's safe, it's the right place for me to go. Can you talk about how you put that together, how you made decisions about what this patient experience would be or what you intended to build for the

Jordan Sanders: Patient? I mean, the bar is really low, at least when we kind of put these thoughts and visions together. I started watching other videos that were out there and the thing that I noticed is that everybody says the same thing, talk about your technology, talk about this, but they really lacked kind of a genuine human connection, which is really what we wanted to focus on. So the whole design of the practice was created around a theme of nature. Knox Mountain is the name of the mountain range that's just right behind the practice. So we went with the mountain theme. I just wanted people to be comfortable. Coming to the dentist is terrifying for most people. There's not a lot of patients that come into the chair and say, I'm so excited to be here. And so we just really wanted them to be able to see this video and see what we were doing and just have it be, as you said, comfortable because when there's 75 other dental practices to pick from in town, what's going to stand out to have them come to you?

And as a startup, that's a pretty scary thought when there's so many other options that are close by. You got to figure out a way to differentiate yourself. And so that's really what we went with. We just went with this theme of human connection and all of the things that the way the practice smells, how it looks, what you see when you walk in, what the conversations are happening, how the front admin are talking on the phone. Everything was curated to create really specific and intentional touch points with the practice so that by the time the patient got to the chair, it didn't matter what I said or who I was, I could have been adult. They're so engrossed by the experience that they've had so far. They're sitting down, they're seeing the TVs, everything's comfortable. It doesn't look clinical that they're okay in that situation and they want to come back. And that's just gone on for four years. It hasn't really changed. We've obviously grown bigger and our practice has evolved, but that underlying foundation that we built in those early days is still present and still one of the reasons that we are doing the way that we are.

Scott Leune: I interviewed one of the top 50 keynote speakers in the world on our previous episode. If you haven't seen that episode, you should go watch it. But it was with Seth Mattison. One thing he talked about is making and doing everything with love and what he meant by love the business version of love is really this human connection. And it reminds me of you, he talked about we can't get stuck in the black hole of commoditized mediocrity. Right? And man, that speaks to me so much about dentistry, the black hole commoditized mediocrity. He says we need to leave a part of ourselves in the thing that we do, in the place that we work in, the product that we make. Customers need to leave with a story to tell.

Jordan Sanders: So true.

Scott Leune: And that reminds me of you and your practice for sure. Customers leaving with a story to tell. Now, it's hard to build a startup practice even when you do it and you're building something you're proud of. I mean, can you imagine going back and working in some other practice that isn't thoughtful about the patient that doesn't have the right look, the right systems, right technology, the right touch points, the right human connection. And now you've got to be in that practice with those employees that are mediocre at best, that have a mediocre culture and the patients have mediocre case acceptance. I can't even imagine having to go back to a life like that, but I've just described the lives of most dentists.

Jordan Sanders: Yes.

Scott Leune: So I think it's important for me before I ask you this next question to highlight that the lives of most dentists are stuck in a situation that you and I don't find acceptable for our lives. And we have the luxury of living this other kind of life because we took the leap of faith, we had the courage to build something we believed in, and that's a really big deal. Now, my question for you is doing this is hard and there's stress. It can steal our time building a new business. It could put pressures on our relationships and our health. Could you talk about the hard part of this? So building the practice from scratch and growing it to where you are right now. What are the challenges that have forced you to become self-aware and adjust and mature as a CEO?

Jordan Sanders: Honestly, the list is long because the reality of it is that dental school really fails us in this kind of idea of preparing us for this type of thing. We were expected to go out into the world and be dentists, but doesn't talk at all about the fact that you got to run a business, you got to build a team, you got to inspire that team, you got to keep them happy. You got to build systems that or that are able to adapt to changing environments. So yeah, it is hard. It's a lot of brain space that you're expending to try to build up something that works. And one of the things that we found is it didn't matter how prepared we were. I've done everything that I thought was right when we first opened. We had some systems in place, we had their checklists, we were auditing things, we were doing all the things, looking at the KPIs.

And then the patient flow just increased so quickly that everything fell apart, everything broke, all the systems stopped working in any kind of meaningful way, and we had to just change and reinvent and change. And the biggest thing that the pain line, which is the point where I got to where I realized that I couldn't do it alone, the best person to do some of these things was not me. That was probably the hardest moment because I think we're so resistant to this idea that we can't do everything ourselves. We can't fix every problem that accepting help from others or believing in someone else enough that they are going to do it to a standard that you are going to be okay with is really difficult. But I remember once we got there and the moment was really when I hired my office manager, it was like, oh, okay, this is what this looks like.

The potential road just kind of unfolded in front of me, so this is where we could go. There's so much more opportunity. And so yeah, the hardest part was just realizing that the amount of time that we spend on things that we probably shouldn't spend time on a little. I was talking with another dentist the other day who had spent two hours on the phone with RIS as a payment company up here trying to work out a problem. And I was like, why are you doing this? Why are you spending two hours of your time talking to this company? You have other things that you should be doing or much better use of your time. And so it's really just taking inventory, an energy audit if you will, kind of thing. Just what am I spending my time on? And being really intentional about that and saying, I can't, I can't do that.

I have to create space. I need to offload this onto somebody else, outsource it however you will so that I can focus on what fires me up, which is either the dentistry or the teaching or whatever it may be. But yeah, it's like no one taught me that. And I don't think if I didn't have great mentors that I wouldn't be where I am. And that's probably the best piece of advice someone ever gave me was get a mentor, get someone that's been in the weeds that's seeing the fires and put them out and have them save you five years of anguish

Scott Leune: Basically. Yeah, yeah. Coaching or mentorship, that is part of it. It basically condenses time as long as you can or coachable, as long as you are impacted by that. It can condense time. It could also make you see things you either weren't noticing or you will never see because you never knew. It's interesting you said when you had an office manager, so many dentists do that though. I am going to make her office manager, but they didn't actually create an office manager role, they just created the title.

So I think what you said is I'm going to offload that, or in other words, I might restate that as I'm going to make a list of the things that I'm going to now take off my plate and put on an office manager's plate as part of their job description. So now I have an office manager and this person has to do these 19 things a week that I now no longer do. And that's a lot different than just telling a treatment coordinator. They're also office manager. Right. I might continue what you've said. I'm a big believer that we should have a personal assistant

That when we're someone that professionally generates 400, 800, a thousand dollars an hour and we do it in a very chaotic high stress environment that we're the kind of person that actually a personal assistant was meant for, whether they are doing something for us in the practice, like staying on the phone for two hours at the payment company or whether they are grabbing our dry cleaning and filling up our gas and picking up our other car from the repair shop. All of that buys us time to then decompress and to point out our life priorities. And I also see dentists that think making more money means doing the same thing faster and longer, so they get more pressure doing it faster and they lose time because they're doing it longer. It sounds like what you've done is you've broken out of that mold a bit. You have actually taken away the need for doing everything by having an office manager. You have taken away the need of clinical dentistry, having all your time by maybe doing something fun or something you're passionate about educating. Could you talk a bit about how you've changed managing your priorities or your time from being a startup solo dentist to now having an associate and having another role in educating?

Jordan Sanders: Yeah, I mean the reality of it was that the first three years in the startup were hard mentally. It was the places that you go to sometimes when you are in those weeds can be pretty scary. And there was about a year ago when I just looked at it and said, I can't keep doing it like this. Everything was going well, but when you're in this growth mindset that you're bringing in lots of money, but there might not be anything much more left at the end of the day because expanding or adding equipment or doing these kinds of things. And it got to this point where I just said, I got to stop. I'm going to stop doing this. I like the clinical dentistry. I'm very passionate about the dentistry, so I'm not really looking to do less of that if I don't have to, but I just want to do certain kinds of dentistry.

And really what it was, there's an exercise out there called the drip matrix, which is basically where you look at all of the things that you do in a two week schedule and in the lower left hand corner is what is delegatable. And so low production, low kind of makes you fired up kind of energy. And I just got rid of all those. I just got rid of everything. As you mentioned, an assistant. I have a virtual executive assistant who helps me with some things as well. And the amount of time that we just opened up when that happened allowed me to pour more energy into the things that earned more money, but also were really inspiring for me and got me going. And it was funny because I'm busier. I have more going on now than I did a year ago, but I'm way less stressed, which it is kind of paradoxical in this sense.

You talk about doing dentistry faster, doing more increasing production, and that's great, but at the end of the day, is it what you want to do or you just getting hung up on the number? So yeah, it was just this point in my life where I said, I have to do something that's going to be different and it's going to let me do this for the rest of my life. I also, I was a bit scared because I started looking at the other dentists around me where about 10 years out of school now everyone's kind of getting a little bit more broken backs are hurting, necks are hurting. And I said, man, I am screwed if I can't pick up a drill, I got to find something else that I can do that's going to let me continue on and with my livelihood and supporting my family and just keeping myself mentally engaged.

So yeah, there's a lot of motivations that got me there. But yeah, it's interesting the kind of cycles that we get ourselves stuck in this produce and earn and produce and earn and to what end, I guess you build another practice, you build six more practices, whatever it is. So I spent a lot of time now talking with my dental colleagues about really trying to figure out what it is that inspires them, what they actually like about the dental career. I find most of them, it's not actually the dentistry. They're like, oh yeah, I could quit dentistry tomorrow if I was financially able to, which I find really interesting. You've spent an entire lifetime essentially getting ready for this career and you just want to hang it up because it's not what gets you doesn't fire you up anymore. It hurts me to hear that. And so I try to kind of help them find the fire again.

Scott Leune: Yeah, I think a lot of us in dentistry are jaded and resentful because we've kind of blended in us doing the dentistry we like with doing the dentistry we don't like with working with people, we didn't pick with financial pressures, but also the expectation we're supposed to hit some achievement or some number and we just put it all together and at the end of the day, our bodies are wearing down. Our schedules are a mess. It can get chaotic if we don't have controls in place. And at the end of the day, we're just trying to make it through, make it through the day. And what you've described in a way is what I might call building boundaries. So I'm not going to do the things that are non-productive and not enjoyable. And I might even say, let's not be with people that don't produce for our life and aren't enjoyable in our life.

Let's just cut that entire category of things and people away and then let's not do the dentistry that is not productive or not enjoyable. And when we kind of build those boundaries, we end up with a lot less stresses and conflict. You see, stress to me comes from working really hard at something that doesn't bring you passion, that's stress. But when we work really hard at something that is aligned with us, that's passion, that's drive, that is being really productive and still happy. And that can be done from the types of dentistry we love. That could be done from working with the people we want to work with in an environment we like, but also it's not just about producing more dentistry, it's about producing more life. We have to have the space to have more life and the plan. So you talk about out, we shouldn't be doing these non-productive tasks and it frees up time, it frees up space well, but the next point is what are we going to invest that time and space into, right?

So if we're just going to twiddle our thumbs with nothing to do, then we didn't, didn't cash that in. Can we schedule health? Can we schedule enjoyment? Can we schedule relationships with that extra time? One thing I say to people, I ask them, how many days do you want to work per week as a dentist? And almost always, it's a number less than they currently work. Almost always they're like, well, I'm currently working for, if I work two or three, that'd be great. If I could take a day off, that'd be great. And then my next comment is, well do it immediately. Literally do it immediately. As long as you've got a plan for that day, you take off, you'll have a smaller schedule, you'll be able to raise your fees faster, your schedule fill up, you'll be more profitable, you'll be less distracted, you'll be happier, especially if you're producing life. So you've mentioned mental health a bit and mental health is kind of a new topic in dentistry. My friend Kyle Stanley, he's a dentist who went through my courses and he's one of the founders of Pearl AI software and he lectures on mental health. He talks a lot about this that we really need to talk about it more. So I think as a CEO, sometimes we do what we have to do and we spend our mental health to get there. How have you managed those moments of breaking down and still being able to get up or forcibly having to change something or not change these kind of friction moments mental health wise as a new CEO? How have you managed that?

Jordan Sanders: If I could say that the journey's been smooth, I would be lying to you. The reality of it is, is that it all started with professional help. When the practice was first built, there was a lot of, I think, unpackaged crap from early life school, dental school especially. Every dentist I think talks about their dental school as being traumatic in some way, shape or form. But what it came to is this recognition that we are human at the end of the day and the expectations that we place on ourselves are sometimes unreasonable. And it's this unwiring of these pathways we have, and Kyle talks about it a lot in his podcasts. Just being able to recognize when you're walking down a road that's not serving you, at least not serving your mental health and being able to stop yourself and kind of take a step back.

We are all deeply emotional people in dentistry. I know that's a big generalization, but I would say that the profession attracts a certain type of person. We're perfectionistic, we're very type A, we want to do well, we want to succeed. We've spent most of our lives succeeding in some way, and then we're thrust into the real world of dentistry. And all of a sudden we're faced with a group of people, our tire patient base that's not super thrilled to see us most of the time and doesn't want to pay for the work that we do. They don't care about that occlusal anatomy. You carved into that filling. It means nothing to them. And so now this thing that we were getting all of this extrinsic benefit from previously is now all of a sudden gone. And if you're a people pleaser or someone that thrives on outward information to prop up your self-worth or your mental health, you are going to suffer in that environment.

And I suffered with it, still do suffer with it on some days. And it really just became this exercise in untangling Jordan, the dentist from Jordan, the person, and realizing that just because something maybe didn't go perfectly with that dental procedure doesn't make me any less worthy of being loved, I guess as a strong word for it. But it is something that I think a lot of us really, really sit down and struggle with. It's we take these things home with us, we take them home to our families. We spend so much emotional energy on our patients and our team during the day that there might not be anything left at the end of the work day to give to the people that really love us. And those kind of realizations were probably the biggest entry point into unshackling myself from that trauma because yeah, it's a difficult road to walk if you try to walk it alone.

And I think that I've had a number of dentists in my life who have suffered severely with mental health. Some of them have taken it to the extreme. And it's really sad because you see the world that they leave behind and these were people that were cared about, but they were so wrapped up in this identity of themselves as being dentists that when that disappeared for one reason or another, there was nothing else left. And so just talking about it, I'm so stoked that we get the opportunities to have conversations like this and just lay out this permission for other people to say that, yeah, I had a shitty day. It was not good. I didn't do perfect dentistry today, and that's okay. And so it's super amazing for me to hear that we're going in this direction because it's been something that I've suffered with and I know a lot of my colleagues suffer with.

Scott Leune: And I think back now to the dentist that doesn't have the practice that gave them passion or drive. They're working for someone else in a practice that they're not exactly proud of and a patient base that they're not exactly connected to with a team they didn't pick. And now they may have even less leftover by the end of the day because it was just stressful to even be there because it didn't represent what they wanted. So you as an owner, while it's also incredibly challenging, you've gotten to build something that brings you some fire, some drive and more money, and that money can translate to more time if you choose to use it that way. What you've kind of described a bit is the difference between a CEO and a COO. So if we go outside of the mental health discussion, and back to this whole concept of you realized you had to offload things, you had to have an office manager and so forth.

You were kind of the COO, meaning the operator, the day-to-day operator, you were overseeing everything going on, and then you brought in an operator and you became the CEO a CEO doesn't have their entire day booked. They're not doing all the audits and looking at every single report every single day. They are looking from kind of a farther distance away at the major important things in making decisions, and then they have a lot more time to do something else. So I kind of view you like you've become a CEO of this business that's expanded and any kind of expansion is difficult to manage and you've done so well and you've come to all these realizations and you've got 3 million in collections and driving. Of course there's profit there. You're now the CEO and you've said, okay, I want to find even more passion in what I do in my career.

I love 3D printing I love, I think I'm going to like teaching and speaking and I'm going to go help others do it. And then you've also said, I've got an associate now so I don't have to do everything at the practice. I've got an office manager. I have to do everything at practice. I've got kids. I want to have a life as well, a life that isn't just dentistry. So you've now kind of earned or bought the ability to have a different life and to have a new passion inside your career as well. Did I explain that correctly? Did I say everything correct?

Jordan Sanders: Yeah, no, that's basically, I've always had a deep passion for teaching ever since my university days. And it was this just recognition that I needed to give myself permission to explore it. You can get wrapped up in the day-to-day dentistry stuff and very easily just continue on operating your office. But it is scary. It's scary to think about cutting a clinical day, which is kind of where I'm headed in order to be able to offer time to other dentists so that they can learn from you. But the moment we taught our first course, which we did last November, it was like, oh yeah, this is a hundred percent what I need to do. This is so rewarding for me. You're talking into other people and you can just see the lights go off in their head and you're sharing the things that you've, with your failures, your hangups and difficulties, and you can see them resonate with it, and now they get to go back to their practices and build themselves a better life. And that's really like at the end of the day, it was all about that for me. It was just this idea that we're having some impact and these people that I care about very deeply are going back to their lives and are able to make some positive change. It might not be today, but as they digest and synthesize this information, they're able to make moves that will benefit their lives. Well, what's

Scott Leune: Interesting is a lot of times dentists will say, I love mentoring people. I love teaching, so I want to have associates or more locations, and I could be that teacher or mentor. Well, those associates don't necessarily want to be taught, want to be mentored, but what you've done is you've said, well, I want to teach. I want to mentor, so I'm going to have people pay me to learn what I know, and they're showing up wanting to be mentored and taught, and they get to go home and do the most with it. And so that's a very smart way to kind of get that fulfillment as an educator. And what do you think is going to happen when you cut back one clinical day? What do you think is going to happen financially for you when you cut back one clinical day and you replace that with other people doing work?

Jordan Sanders: Yeah, I mean, I expect there to be a dip probably, but the thing is is we're going to prepare for it. We have a comfortable two dentist practice. There's seven operatories in this practice. We have no room to expand, so we got to work with what we got. And so that'll probably involve adding a second associate and having them pick up the days that I drop. But I mean, at the end of the day, this place operates very well. I am a hundred percent confident that if I was to disappear tomorrow, that my team could and my associate could take the vision that we've built and just keep going with it. I fully trust them to be able to keep this place operating at the level that it has been this entire time, which is really a big stress relief for me. We set it up that way on purpose, but I could see it being a struggle for other people to let go like that if they weren't prepared for it. But yeah, I mean, it's just a move that I'm making to cash in some passion. I like the dentistry, but I want to use the teaching as an opportunity to shift the dentistry. I want to do more 3D printed based stuff, maybe solely 3D printed based stuff and just kind of shift my side of the clinic in that direction. We had talked about potentially building out a actual teaching center and doing that level of education, which would completely replace me from here. So yeah, there's a lot of things coming on the conveyor belt right now. It's a bit hard to digest all the time, but we're being very flexible in our pivots and it'll just be what it'll be. It's something that we're prepared for and I have a very, very capable team that's going to keep things

Scott Leune: Going. I'm going to disagree with one thing you said.

Jordan Sanders: Sure.

Scott Leune: You said, well, I mean I'm expecting a dip. I disagree. I rarely actually seen that dip occur. So whenever someone goes from let's say four days a week to three days a week clinically, so often the important cases, the bigger cases, the types of dentistry they like to do, that doesn't go down. It just squeezes into less days and it squeezes out the dentistry that they don't like to do that is less productive and the day they gave to an associate ends up converting into enough dentistry to pay the bills for that day

So that the owner's income now on three days is typically the same, maybe more. That's what I typically see. But what I love that you said is, look, we're going to see what happens. We've prepared and what's going to happen is going to happen. That is the mindset of a very mature CEO and entrepreneur because we'll never know what happens, but what you're basically saying is, I'm betting on my team and myself that whatever happens, we're going to figure it out. We're going to end up in the green, we're going to end up okay, because that's what I believe. I can't believe anything other than that, right? That is the mindset of someone that builds success. The mindset of someone that doesn't build success is being paralyzed because they won't know for sure if it's going to be okay. The one that builds success says, I don't know for sure if it's going to be okay, but I know for sure that my team and I are going to figure it out if it's not.

Another thing you said is you're buying kind of a new passion in 3D printing. I noticed in Canada 3D printing is not where it is yet in the us. Correct. A lot of practices are still milling instead of printing, you're just on that kind of beginning chapter of 3D printing in Canada. I don't even know if you can charge patients for the 3D printed lab work in Canada like you can for the milling and so forth. But man, you are really choosing a wonderful passion to start in the perfect place to start it. Canadian dentistry is excellent dentistry. It's profitable dentistry. It's modern dentistry, and it needs 3D printing and there's just not a lot of places in North America to go for that training. So how would people find out about your

Jordan Sanders: Specific courses? Where would they go? The best place to find our courses, either on our Instagram, like you mentioned at add ascend dental education or ascend dental education.com is the website. All of our courses will be live there for 2026 very shortly. We have a course in November that teaches kind of intro to 3D printing and design. So I teach people how to use specifically exo CAD to do their own own CAD design, but next year we're opening the flood gates, as you said, the stuff that's going on in the US with 3D printings trickling into Canada more and more, so our capabilities will be much closer to the US by this time next year. And so we're just going to teach it all the opportunities that this technology offers is just as mind boggling. The things that dentists that even are scared about it or you don't have to change your dentistry, you could just morph 3D printing into it and it's incredibly profitable and it's super fricking cool for the patients. They get faster dentistry, better dentistry, and you are in this position where your flexibility is just mind boggling. It's hard to describe without actually seeing it, but it's opened the doors in my practice specifically and I can imagine it doing it for anybody that is interested in getting involved with it. So yeah, you're right. It is the time to start looking at it.

Scott Leune: Yeah, we're going to be in Canada at the end of September. We're doing our first series of seminars, startup and practice management seminars in Canada. We've always had Canadians at all of our events, and we finally say we should probably go to them and go to Canada, so we're going to be in Toronto. We're also looking at even going to the uk. We've had a lot of European dentist fly over. Well, I want to wrap this up a bit. We're out of time. I want to give a little summary of what I've heard you say and I'd love for you to give some final words. But what I see and what I think of when I think to your story, I see an associate who was ready to bet on themselves and start a new chapter and build something they're passionate about, and that thing that you built was patient and relationship centered and it took off.

And so the struggles you had were really related to how do I handle all this success in a way? And you learned at some point that you can't do everything yourself, and you brought in an operations person to assist you, which bought you time to then continue investing in your company and in your people to where now you're very proud of your people, you're very proud of your company. You think it would live without you. That's how good it is. And this time you've bought this mental freedom you've now acquired by having operations assist you, has given you the next passion project of 3D printing and helping improve the world of dentistry by teaching them what you know about 3D printing. And you're doing all of that while generating 3 million a year. You're doing all of that with two young kids and having to of course be the CEO of your life and of your business, and that is very inspiring. I think everyone needs to go look you up Knox Mountain Dentistry and Ascend Dental Education. Before we have to wrap this up, is there anything else you'd like to say to the audience?

Jordan Sanders: Probably the best thing that I could leave everyone with is just this quote that I found to be really inspiring to me, and it was those that do not move, do not notice their chains. And this idea that if you're not looking for ways to make yourself better every day, you're not going to notice the stuff that's holding you back and this idea that you have to live in the world that you're currently in is just not true. You can go out and get whatever it is that you want and whatever your heart desires, you just have to put in the work and that if anybody ever needs to have a conversation about anything they're struggling with that I am a phone call away.

Scott Leune: That is so awesome. I really appreciate your willingness to open up to us, to give your wisdom, your experiences, your struggles, and everyone else gets to benefit and learn from that and hopefully be inspired by your journey. Jordan Sanders, thank you so much for joining me on the Dental CEO podcast. Again, everyone look him up. Look his practice up, look up Ascend Dental Education to get training. Jordan, I hope we cross paths soon. Maybe I'll see you in Canada one day. There you go. Everyone else, I appreciate y'all listening. Please subscribe. Please post a review. Help us keep this thing going as we continue to dive deeper and deeper into the world of being the dental CEO. My name's Scott Leune. I want to thank everyone for listening to this podcast. Goodbye, everyone.